Christmas Eve & Christmas Day Issues

Been there, done that.

If it's all for show then maybe you will get lucky and he will enjoy the idea of shedding the responsibility of parenting after his families holiday gathering. Point out to him you will get the kids ready for bed and he won't have to get up early Christmas morning.

I always tried to point out the benefits to him, somehow he would latch on to the idea and once it came out of his mouth it became his idea and sounded even better.

Best wishes.

Dianna is right.

I am sorry you are dealing with such crud right now. Hopefully it'll all work out. All my best to you.

Has the custody agreement been set up yet. You can make it as detailed as you like. I'd have it put in there that the children can spend x-mas eve with your ex and nothing more. They are to wake up in their beds in your home x-mas morning. You can make the custody agreement as detailed as, the kids are to be picked up and dropped off at specific times (they need to be home by 3 on Sunday). And exactly what and how the holiday's, every holiday, is to happen. You can also make it where "certain" people can not be around your children. For example, if someone happens to have a drug charge or any other police record against them, you can make it where they can not be around your kids. Talk to your lawyer (hopefully you have one). You have every right to protect your kids. Even if it's from their own father. I'd say, either you drop them off at my home x-mas eve after the party or you don't see them at all. What are the custody arrangements for the holidays? Do you have to let them see him at all. Or does he get them every other weekend. You don't really say what the agreement is. Twist it to your advantage.

Wow! I've been where you are and it’s not fun. My ex was an immature selfish B*****d! The first Christmas after the divorce was difficult. I tried to keep everything as it was which is important to the kids - their world should be disrupted as little as possible. If that means they are home Christmas Eve to wake up in their own room - their own bed than you have to fight to keep it that way. I remember the first year my daughter came home with tons and tons of toys! Huge garbage bags filled! Not that there is anything wrong with toys but in moderation is best. I remember saying - she needed clothes and not one person did the sensible thing...they all tried to win her love with toys...made me really aggravated! The one thing I always did for her every year was to put a present on her bed when she got home and I told her that it was from Santa - he saw she wasn’t home yet and didn’t want to leave all her presents so he left just one and this made her eyes light up and the excitement was so enjoyable! Well...in that box - always - every year - pajamas for her to wear to bed that night. Because this was from Santa and she felt that Santa was watching - those PJ's out weighed any number of toys she received. It kind of brought her mind home....put a smile on her face. Good luck with this and go with your instinct - it’s always best!

Dear A.,

From a legal standpoint Dianna is right. However from an emotional standpoint as much as this guy sound like a creep remember he is their father and a part of them so tread carefully on what battles you expose them to. I was a product of divorce and was also divorced myself. My son is now 24 and although I married the most wonderful man who he calls dad (doesn't see his biological dad since he was 12) there are parts of my son that have pain, very low self esteem, and sometimes anger. His biological father is a jerk, and my son came to that conclusion on his own when he was 12 and choose not to see him any longer. Of course if your ex is harmful to your children then fight with everything you have, but if it is just agreement of lifestyle then you have to try to be cooperative, otherwise you run the risk of your children turning on you. Trust me you will become the bad guy. Basically what I am saying is its not going to be the end of the world if they miss their nap it's Christmas a day of fun,and family time. When he brings the kids home give them their bath, leave a little early and let them sleep in the car just try not to ruin your day. Move forward, make sure as Dianna said you have every legal issue finalized and documented and then just love your kids and prepare for your new life. Do not care what your ex does it will keep you stuck in it. You left this marriage for a reason remove yourself from it. Unfortunately with two kids he will have to be a part of your life, but try to come to a happy medium for your kids. Divorce is hard enough on kids but when the parents cannot move on and expose them to the bitterness it it is damaging to who they become. Trust me I know. My son struggled a lot through his teen years with dealing with the issues from his dad. Fortunately, now thank god he is in a good place. I had to be the bigger person for him as much as I wanted to tell him what a jerk his father is I didn't. Good luck and remember to also take care of you during this painful time.

Hi A.,

My parents divorced when I was 13, and it was messy. The arrangement was Dad got us on Christmas Eve, brought us home that evening (late), and then we had Christmas morning with Mom. Whenever Dad brought us home, Mom would be carrying on about how much she missed us and asking us what we got and taking shots at my Dad. It was awful. Please, whatever you do, keep things cordial for the kids' sake. If they miss a bath, they miss a bath. Be the bigger person. Your kids will thank you for it later.

A.,

As a divorced mom of 2 - I know what you are going through. If there is a visitation schedule already set up - then unfortunately you have to abide by those rules. If there isn't - get one as soon as possible that incorporates holiday time into it.

In the meantime - if there isn't one - I would express my feelings about what is right for the children and go from there - I would even go as far as to drop them off and pick them up (even though it should be his responsibility- though sometimes to get something done right - you have to do it yourself).

I have the same plan at Christmas with my kids - they spend Christmas Eve with him and Christmas day with me - even though with my family we get together with my dad's side of the family on Christmas Eve and spend Christmas Day with my now husband's side of the family. So the kids miss out on one celebration. But they do need to have that time with their father and his family.

As for your ex - one thing I've learned is that you can't force him to be a father. Its unfortunate that he 'doesn't have time to say "hi"' as you say - but there's really nothing you can do in that area. He has to WANT to be a father and be there for his kids. When I started dating my now husband 12 yrs ago, my ex backed off from seeing my kids - and he missed out on A LOT. He rarely called - and even on his weekends of visitation - wouldn't take them.

All you can do is be the best mom you can be - give them structure and a loving home. Be the one they can tell anything to about anything at all.

I only speak from experience - my kids are now 17 and 14 and now I'm caring for my 8 yr old nephew who's parents don't take the time for him either (and that's my own brother!!!) I just take care of him as if he was my own - and let him know everyday that I love him (and my own kids) and that I'll always be there for them.

I know it will be hard to let the bitterness of his actions towards you and your marriage go - but the sooner you do - the better off you will be as a mom to your babies.

Good luck!!

Very sorry to hear @ the divorce. I went through the same thing. In time, he'll let go of the kids as he drifts over to his new wife / partner. Keep emphasizing to him what is best for the kids. I paid $1000's in therapy to get over the betrayal of my spouse.(it was a 20 yr marriage. He left when our 2nd child was 7 months old.)The most valuable phrase I learned there from the shrink? "Children thrive on consistency & predictability". Keep the holiday as low key as possible: they sleep in their own beds, they stick to their nap time. They stick to their meal schedule. Your kids are very little! If you take this to court, you will win with that phrase & outlook that is it all about what is best for the kids. Emphasize to him how inconvenient it will be for the kids to stay over, they'll cry, maybe one still wets the bed. It sounds like he does not take them for weekend sleep-overs now.Take him to the Court House Mediator, this was free & they see very clearly what is best for the kids.I finally got an iron-clad Visitation Schedule in place..it doesn't solve all the problems, but it helps. Pray alot & thank God you are rid of that garbage ball in your youth and that you have 2 beautiful kids so all in all, you won.

How do you get along with your mother in law? can the kids go over there earlier so they can have their time? before the party starts, than have them get them ready for you at a certain time. cause it sounds like you may have to go get them. good luck!

Hi A.
It is always a problem to show God's love to the unlovely.
Isn't that however, what he did for us. While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Forgiveness is however a process, and this sounds like a new problem, right?
As for Christmas: Talk to him about an earlier more convenient time if late Christmas eve is not an option. I do not think it is unreasonable to have Christmas AM if he has Christmas eve. That is how most businesses and hospital hours are set up for holidays.
That being said "I am reminded, that we must talk to people in the language that they understand" Love is a language that some do not understand so you must be strong enough to speak in a language they do understand. Perhaps it is firmness, strength, or agressive language. Ask the Lord to give you the words and the tone to use. He might be surprised at your new found "language" which is not necessarily a vocab change but tonal.
God bless you with wisdom
if any man lacks wisdom all he must do is ask.
K. SAHM married 38 years adult children 37, 32, and twins 18

Hi A.,
For what it's worth, that is the arrangement my husband had the entire time he grew up. Mom got Christmas Eve, and Dad got Christmas Day. The most important thing that I think you have to focus on are your children. It sounds like you have a lot of anger towards your ex-husband. As justified as you may be, your children wont understand it and it's not fair to put them in the middle. I think you'll save everyone, mostly yourself, a lot of stress if you just go with the flow. Christmas eve is his night, I think they should be allowed to stay there. Christmas day is your's, so if 11am is too late then tell him you need them earlier so you can get everything together. Or suggest that every other year they spend the night with you so they wake up on Christmas morning with you. The key is compromise. As hard as it may be to parent with a partner you're mad at, it's even harder with a parent you're estranged from. So, make the best of it and keep the kids out of it. Best of luck to you!!

Is there any way you can offer to pick them up in the evening and act like it is a favor to him so he can sleep in on Christmas morning? I know this sounds sneaky and too kind to what sounds like a creep, but you can catch more flies with honey and you don't want your kids to get caught in the middle. He might be trying to force your hand so he does not feel like he is giving in, turning the issue into a power stuggle beyond the issue at hand. So take the power out of the struggle any way you can. Take a deep breath, remind yourself that Christmas is a holiday to honor a man who taught us to turn the other cheek, and do your best. Good luck.

Hi A.,

I'm sorry that you're going through this. No matter what you think of your ex and his girlfriend, you must honor whatever your custody agreement is. What does your custody agreement say about holidays? If there is some legally binding wording about him having the kids overnight on Christmas Eve, you must go by that. If you are letting him have the kids as a favor, you get to set the rules. You can't count on him to bring them back when you say, so I would let him know that you will be by on Christmas morning at 9:00 to get the kids or whatever time works for you. Don't hesitate to get your lawyer or mediator involved if the ex is somehow not honoring your custody agreement, or if you feel that it needs to be amended regarding the holidays.
Good luck!

I'm getting divorced as well and Christams Eve is big for his family, Christmas for mine. For myself, I want my daughter back with me on the Eve so she can wake up infer own bed. Is it possible for him to return the kids to you that night or is it set up for them to stay over? We asre going to have a sit down with the lawyers and a judge to discuss this stuff in a couple of weeks, so I've been thinking about what I want. What do you really want? You should discuss it with your lawyer and have it set up and tell him about the living situation of your ex. It doesn't sound like a safe or healthy environment for your kids. Good luck and let me know what happens, I can use some advice as well.
C.

I would ask him to bring the kids home christmas eve and also offer to pick them up. I know dropping him off should be his responsibility but it sounds like he would be moe willing to send them home earlier. God Bless and keep praying!!! A.

If they were my children, I would insist that he bring them home directly following the get together at their grandparent's home, provided that he hasn't been drinking.
If there's a possibility that he may overdo it with the liquor, then I would offer to pick them up at a certain time, after they've spent some time with his family.

I certainly wouldn't allow them to spend the night, especially if his current "girlfriend" is addicted to any sort of drug or there is a possibility that one or both of them have been drinking!!

Since he only wants to see them when it benefits him, rather than the children, I wouldn't feel a bit guilty about insisting that they come home so that they wake up
Christmas morning with you, and you have time to care for them and spend time with them before going to your family's home.

In fact, if I were in your place, I would probably take them to see their paternal grandparents the day before Christmas, and wouldn't let him have them Christmas Eve at all!

I know that probably sounds selfish, but you have to consider their safety and well-being first and foremost, and it certainly doesn't sound as if he's a very caring or responsible father to them.

Ugghhh I feel your pain! Every year I go through it with my daughters father. For years we fought(6) and FINALLY last year we came to an agreement that she will be with him Christmas eve. and at night either her father will drop her off or I will pick her up and she wakes up Christmas am. with us. I would suggest you tell him you will be at his place(or where ever) at such and such time to pick up the children. Let him know it is in the childrens best interest for them to come home at night so they can stay on schedule and so on..Even my retarded ex could grasp that..and beileve me..he is STUPID!!!(like 30 and still needs mommy to tell him what to do and how to do it..) We did go to court and battle it out, and we do actually have a court order that we modify to fit our needs now that I moved back in the area.(was 6 hours away before) and I always remind him how the judge makes his decisions based on what is the best for the child. Not the mother or father. So maybe this will work for your problem too?? I have also learned that the best thing you can do if you havent started already is to write EVERYTHING down, when daddy messes up and does or says something that is not good for the children, to help make your case that much stronger..it sure helped me through my custody battle.. (every time he had the children around a user ect..) Hang in there..it will get easier believe me. Good luck and best of wishes..just remember, be the best mom you can to your children and in time your children will know who truly is there for them. Daddy may be a slacker but in time your children will know everything they need to know about him to decided if they want that in their life...(and maybe you could offer to have the children spend the night the day before Christmas eve so that way he is more agreeable to having the children come home Christmas eve night) If you dont have a lawyer..and live relatively close to Niagara Falls I can recomend a GREAT one..let me know!

You may not like it, but he IS their father and he has as much right to the kids as you do. You don't have to like everything he does. However, as long as he is not drinking and driving with the kids in the car, he's not doing drugs and not endangering them in any way, you have to let him have his time with them too, regardless of what you think his intentions are (using them for 'show').
I see nothing wrong with him keeping them over night as long as he isn't endangering them in any way.
If you really feel they will need a bath ask him to bring them home before 11 so you can do that.
As was mentioned, make sure you have the custody agreement in your divorce papers so this is all worked out fairly for both of you.

Believe me, I was married to someone who didn't want anything to do with the kids. He even asked my new husband to adopt them, which he did. Now the ex still wants to see them on his 'other' kids' birthdays, just to make it look good. But, ya know what? I let them go (they are old enough to decide for themselves now if they want to go or not).

Just remember, when your kids get older they will form their own opinion of their father. Do not do anything to influence them either way about him, it will only come back to bite you in the end if you do.
Kids are smart and they know who it is that takes care of them and who provides for them. They know who it is that takes care of them when they are sick, who goes to their school for things, etc. They won't forget it.
They will also figure out who is being 'fake' with them and who is real with them.
one thing I always did for myself was to never make a promise to my kids that I didn't/couldn't keep. If I wasn't sure, I told them I'd try, but didn't promise.
If I ever say "I promise" they know I WILL follow through, no matter what.

you see, their dad always made promises and never kept them, so I made sure when I made a promise, it was kept.

Good luck, I hope you and your kids have a wonderful holiday.

Are there any legal visitation rights given to follow in the divorce process...if so, you need to follow them.

But given the facts you had given here, I would do what is best for the children.

I'd be worried and my guess is that he and his girlfriend will be drinking at his family holiday get together and I wounldn't want him driving the kids home under that condition. Unless you have a way of picking the children up yourself at the location of their celibration, I would tell him:
"Sorry, but I have already made plans for the Holidays but you can drop your X-mas gifts off for the children and spend a little time with them on your way to your X-Mas celibration. Since they are very young I have planned the Holidays around their needs and routine and that's the way it is when it comes to children...their care and needs come first".

I've had a bitter ex for 10 years. Lives a mile away and has nothing to do with their lives. they were 5,7,9 at the time. I would let him have them for a few hours in the late morning/early afternoon on xmas day before my company arrived and that's it. He didn't deserve anything more and the kids still got to be with their father. Assuming your ex doesn't drink, I would let him have the kids for the gathering on xmas eve provided they were home by bedtime. That's it! or not at all. It should be for your convenience and not his.
Good luck!

A. ~ Since your children are young you have a LONG way to go with dealing with "dear 'ol dad" - so ....let me share....

Let him have them on Christmas Eve - let the children experience the 'other' family and THEN let them come 'home' for CHRISTMAS. Santa will have SO MUCH more time at HOME <your home> to prepare and enjoy her free time. RELAX, listen to the carols, invite a friend over for a glass of wine and help you to share in the 'santa' experience. <ESP. one that does NOT have children or is 'past' that stage in life!>
When the time comes that you have your own 'new life' and sharing yourself with someone new you will SO APPRECIATE that YOU get x-mas eve on your own..... and get to SHOWER the children the next day..... REMEMBER - you CAN'T change him. You can't choose HIS friends, family etc. YOU CAN show the children that YOU ARE the better person, and that you LOVE them very much.
BTW - after a nasty nasty divorce and years of "H_ll" - my children are "older" and more the wiser. Some years I am 700+ miles away from home during the holidays and they come and join ME to spend them. We share what 'fun' we had on the holidays growing up and how some of the secret things that happened <email me and I will share them> that their father never knew of.......because it was 'ours'....

MERRY CHIRSTMAS to you and your children. Make it MERRY!!

question...in your divorce does he has visitation rights...if not, keep your kids for holidays and so forth...if he is any thing like you describe..you can do bad all by your self...an if he does..then pray...and pray hard...

I feel your pain. I am in a similar situation except that thank goodness my children are older. My ex is a selfish immature person, his soon to be divorced girlfriend is worse. I have to wait until noon to get them on Christmas. I have joint custody, so I don't see them for days..it is very hard. The best thing you can do is cling to the things that give meaning to your life, enjoy your time away from your children because the alternative is to be miserable, which doesn't help your kids, and realize that one day they will know who is the person they can count on, forever. Mine are 6 and 10 and they love their Dad, which is fine, but I'm hoping someday they will see not that their Dad, is "bad" or "not the best dad" but that they will see that of the two parents, their mother is the one who loves them without boundaries and will love them forever, and that no other person can change that. It isn't about a contest as to who they love more, it is that they will know who they can count on, no matter what. All children deserve at least one person in the world who feels this way about them. Be strong, you would be surprised what you can do when you focus on your love for them...that alone has gotten me through so much. Take care and let me know how it is going. I give you a big virtual hug and hope it all works out for you.

My girlfriend is nearing the end of a divorce with someone who sounds a lot like your soon to be ex - is his name Steve? lol...

Don't sign the agreement until you get exactly what you want...have it put in writing in the divorce that you get the kids back at 9 (or whatever) time on Christmas Eve. Get it in writing, writing, writing...and don't sign anything just to get the divorce over with...you'll be sorry.

Best wishes to you, it's a sad situation, but keep your chin up.

J.

Since you are divorcing you must have a lawyer. I would call him and ask him to get a court order that the children be returned to you by 9 PM on Christmas eve. Just asking the father will not be enough.