Fun with Fenugreek

I have used Fenugreek and it does work! It took probably 2-3 days to kick in, but I noticed a difference. The funny part is you'lll walk around smelling like maple syrup while taking it. I also had the tea but don't remember using it as often. www.kellymom.com has some good ideas and products to helo you out. About let down, just try to relax bring a pic of the baby with you or an article of clothing - but keep trying!

My sister-in-law lives in S.Africa and she had the same problem. They told her to have a beer shanti each day. It is 1/2 beer & 1/2 Sprite or 7 up. There is something is the beer that helps with milk expressing. She had no problems afterwards and did it for all 3 of her kids.
Good luck.
G.

The lactation consultant I went to 4 years ago put me on fenugreek and blessed thistle - I bought both at GNC. Unfortunately, I don't remember the amounts or how many times a day, but if you can find one to talk to maybe she can give you some advice.

Hello,

Fenugreek works really well for some women and doesn't help much for others. For me it didn't help much, but I have friends who had to stop taking it because they made too much milk - so everyone is different. You will want to take a LOT more than what is written on the bottle. Like 3-4 pills 3 times per day. You will know that you are taking enough when you start to smell like maple syrup! I also recommend getting the kind that Whole Foods sells and not the one sold by GNC or other nutrition shops. There is definitely a difference in effectiveness (and price!).

I also had trouble getting enough supply when I was pumping and I wrote an article to help other moms learn from what helped me. Here is a link for you: <http://www.pumpingtips.com&gt;

The biggest thing that helped me with let down was to pump for 10 minutes, stop the pump for 2 or 3 minutes, then pump again for 5-6 minutes. This ALWAYS got me a 2nd let down. I also never pumped more than 2-3 ounces total per pumping session. Good luck - you can do it. Let me know if you have any questions after reading my article.

You are doing a great thing for your baby and you should feel proud!!

J.
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Hi! And Congratulations on the little one. It is wonderful that you are pumping for him!!! My DD is 14 months now and still nursing around the clock although she does eat meals and snacks.

Are you familiar with the kellymom site? www.kellymom.com I can usually find answers to all my questions there. She has a great page about decreased pumping out put located at http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/pumping_decrease.html. If nothing else, please note that ***Most nursing moms who are pumping are able to pump an average of .5 to 2 ounces TOTAL for both breasts per pumping session. Your output is totally normal! Frustrating, yes, but NORMAL.

The best way to increase milk production is to add in extra sessions. For most women, the most productive time to pump is first thing in the AM. The least productive is last thing in the evening. The hormones that help with milk production are highest between midnight and the early morning hours.

Have your cycles returned? A lot of times there's an assoicated supply dip. Also, 3 months is a pretty big growth spurt. It's also really important to make sure that your caregiver isn't just popping a bottle in his mouth every time he cries and is trying to soothe him in other ways.

Oatmeal (even oatmeal cookies!), esepcially steel cut oats, is a great milk increaser too!

Are you pumping beyond your last letdown? I typically get an initial letdown within a minute or two and it can take as long as 10 minutes past that let down to trigger a second. You should make sure to pump 2-5 minutes beyond your last letdwon to keep telling your body to make more milk. Around this time too, your supply is switching from hormone driven to supply and demand driven.

best wishes

S.

Just an idea, but maybe the problem isn't you or your supply, but your pump. I had bought a cheaper pump (evenflo- I would never recommend it!!) and I maybe pumped 1 ounce per breast per session. So I called my lactation specialist and they suggested buying a better pump. I bought the Ameda Purely Yours and I was amazed at the difference. I was able to pump 4-6 ounces per breast per session. Good luck!!

Clearly you're stressed and anxious and probably looking at the small amount of milk you are getting and stressing, causing less milk to come out, and so on. Relax, close your eyes, listen to some soothing music. Set an alarm or timer and what you get is what you get. Though obviously you are very dedicated to exclusive breast feeding, you may do well to remind yourself that you may supplement with a small amount of formula if you need to. It will not lead to a downward spiral, will reduce your stress, and likely allow you to get more milk.

You really can't take too much Fenugreek-- 3 caps a day 3 times a day should do it. I never found that it helped me, but I was very supply-challenged. Pumping at work is just really hard-- it might help to rent a hospital-grade pump. Also, make sure you are warm enough, getting tons of fluid, and can take the time you need. I found that it was better to surf the web while I was pumping-- otherwise I'd be watching the bottle and stressing about how little there was in it. I'd take the attitude that I'd set the timer for 15 minutes, try to relax, and what I got was what I got. We supplemented with formula when there wasn't enough, and he did fine with that. Good luck!

(not sure if this has been said or not) I received a protocol from my lactation consultants (I forget the dr's name who wrote the protocol) for fenugreek and blessed thistle. The fenugreek called for at least 20/day and more - take it until your skin smells like maple syrup. It also said that most success was when it was taken with blessed thistle. Then it said that if you don't see an increase in 5 days, you won't see one and to stop taking the pills.

Due to some other health issues and medications, I could not take the BT and had no success with the Fenugreek (I tried it for 2wks). GOOD LUCK!!

If you are not in a relaxed environment, it is much harder to let down when pumping. Are you able to pump in a quiet, private place at work (not the bathroom!)? Try looking at pictures of your baby while you pump, and imagine him in your arms. This worked for me with my first! Good luck!

My sister when on Fenugreek & she told me I need to try it (my supply is fine for what my almost-9 month old daughter needs now, but I will finish pumping when she is 10 month old - she self weened at 7 months despite my attempts to continue nursing, so it's just me & the pump.

Some of the things I do that encourage pumping let down: a video clip of my daughter on my laptop, a m=newly-washed article of clothing, a picture)

good luck - being a working mom is never easy & being a working-nursing mom is even less so =O}

I understand your frustration. I have had supply issues since day 1. I started taking Fenugreek a couple weeks ago and have noticed a huge difference. My daughter is now satisfied after most feedings and I'm getting more when I pump. I have been taking 2 caps 2x/day. I was told by a lactation consultant that I could increase to 3 caps 2x/day if needed, but the lower dose seems to be working, so I'm sticking with that for now. I also drink Mother's Milk tea occassionally (don't drink it every day). It has such a small amount of Fenugreek, I felt like it was fine to do both. I take the fenugreek daily and noticed a difference in supply after a couple days. I have heard that when you smell like maple syrup you are taking enough, but my urine and sweat don't really smell much and I"m still noticing a difference, so I think it's different for everyone. My breastmilk sometimes smells a bit like maple syrup though. As far as side effects go, neither me or my baby have had any (except for the faint maple syrup smell). I did look up online what the side effects, etc. are and I honestly can't even remember them now. None were bad though- it is generally well-tolerated by both mom and baby. But if you are taking any other meds you should check w/ your doctor to make sure there are no interactions.

I also rented a hospital grade pump, just for a couple months, to help boost my supply. They are stronger than the pumps you buy and therefore help to boost supply.

Lastly, I have and continue to supplement with formula as needed. I began supplementing b/c my supply was so low and she wasn't gaining weight. Now I continue to supplement when I'm at work if I don't have enough expressed breastmilk, or if she is still hungry after nursing. She has no problem taking the formula and I can rest easier knowing she is well-noursished rather than starving.

Good luck!

Great job working so hard to nurse! Fenugreek and the tea didn't do much for me. The only thing that really helped was water water water. The more water you drink the better. Massive amounts. You're right about the letting down, and you just have to pump and feed more-as you have been doing. Keep up the good work, and drink tons and tons-I mean TONS- of water!

I have never used supplements for my supply, but here are some of my tricks for pumping.

Make sure you're as warm and comfy as possible. Being cold or sitting in an uncomfortable place just isn't condusive to pumping.

Try and read, write, watch tv or do anything else you can think of while pumping! Keep your mind off of it... looking at a picture of my son never worked. I did much better when I wasn't thinking about it. "A watched pot never boils."

Make sure the suction on your pump is strong, but not overkill. Your breasts might hold back if it is too strong.

Drink lots of fluid and eat oatmeal... that seemed to help me!

Good luck!

I had some problems with pumping also. I plastered my bag with pics of our son and would stare at those for awhile before I would pump. Also, if you can, record on your phone, your son crying, cooing, "talking. Those really helped me. I didn't go the route of the pills or tea because my friend, who's a nurse, said it might affect the taste of my milk. good luck and I hope this helps!

Well, Fennugreek will help to increase supply, but your issue sounds more like an issue w/ your PUMP than w/ your SUPPLY. Just FYI, you can take 2-3 capsules of it, 2-3x/day. When your urine & sweat start to smell like maple syrup, you're taking enough & it's working.

Have you read "Nursing Mother, Working Mother" yet? If not, I can't suggest it enough!

What kind of pump do you use? What's your pumping reutine?--You should have a very consistant reutine so that your body knows, "Ok, it's time to pump". Lots of women pump at the same time every day & will go to a private, quiet place and take 3-5 min to close their eyes & just relax, while putting warm compresses on their breasts and maybe doing some light massage to their breasts to stimulate them a little & help them to relax.

Have some photos of your baby to look at and start pumping while taking some big, deep breaths and sipping some Mother's Milk tea or another relaxing drink.

Many moms also find that if they pump WHILE they nurse their baby that their output often doubles! There are several good ways to do this, but they probably all take a bit of practice.

Also, if you haven't already started going to La Leche League meetings, I can't recommend highly enough that you go! Not only do you get a tremendous amount of support, but the advice that you get & the tips & all that are priceless!

Hang in there! You can do it!

Good luck!
A.

Hi, you've got a lot of great responses here, but I'll throw in 1 more anyway - if your baby is satisfied when you nurse, you're probably correct that it's not your supply.

Do you have a really good double pump (either the Medela Pump in Style, Medela Symphony, or Ameda Purely Yours), and a hands-free bra? If you have a Medela pump that uses valves, replace them (the small white flexible "flaps"). They are cheap, and if they are starting to wear out, your pump isn't working optimally.

Finally, how long do you pump for? This varies for everyone, but some people have an initial small letdown, then after 10-15 minutes of pumping, get another substantial letdown. So try pumping for a good 30 minutes (this is where the hands-free bra is essential) if you aren't already.

For letdown, trying to relax, looking at a picture of the baby, and imaging him in my arms while pumping always helped me.

Good luck!!

I'm not sure how comfortable you are with this, but at one point when i was pumping, it was easier for me to express my milk by hand. I would pump for one of the feedings and then later go back and pump again but would only get a small portion of what i needed, but if i massaged my breasts in conjuntion with the pump or even eventually with out it, i was able to get enough. I don't remember exactly how long i had to do that or what i did to get my supply back up. sorry.
And i never used any of the herbals you mentioned, so i can't help you with that. I do have the number for a lactation consultant in my area that will give free advice over the phone, let me know if you are interested and I'll get that information to you. She was so immensly helpful when i was nursing.
Also, at around 3 mo they usually hit a growth spurt and will nurse constantly to build up your supply to met the new demand. It sounds like you are doing it but giving unlimited night access might help. I'm not sure what to tell you if it's a let down problem, do you have something that smells like your baby to have with you at work while you pump??

Good Luck and keep up the awesome job, Breastfeeding is such a fantastic thing to do for your baby.

I took Fenugreek while nursing my third baby. The lactation consultant told me about it, and I took 1950 mg three times a day. She also recommended the milk tea you mentioned, but I couldn't find it around here. Like others said, when your sweat and urine smells like maple syrup, you are taking enough - and continue taking it every day for as long as needed. I was told it would take about 3 days to make a difference.

Eventually, I went on prescription Reglan, and that helped much more for me. There are several options for prescriptions that you can take if you need to go that route, with better success than the herbs usually. I hope you find what works best for you!

Hi EB,

It's been a while since I was nursing and pumping. It sounds like you're pumping at work. Do you have a picture of your baby to look at when you pump? That will help you relax. I think you're a bit stressed and that has limited your supply. Just try to relax.

A. D

Remeber that nursing is much more efficient than pumping and some women just are not able to pump more than a few ounces at a time.
In the breastfeeding support group I go to we spoek about this topic just this past week. When pumping, make sure you are in a quiet room, doing nothing but pumping, sit quietly, and just think about your baby and the milk let down. Have a picture of your baby and something that smells like them, like a blanket. For some women, this really gets the flow going.
As far as Fenugreek and Mother's Milk, every woman is different. I believe you must take them routinely in order for them to work.
I have a friend who drank 2 beers a day (as it is supposed to increase your milk supply). She drank 2 ODouls per day (so not to get the alcohol). For her, she said it was like a faucet.
Others say oatmeal daily increases your milk supply.
Also- I have been told that eating or chewing gum while pumping can sometimes help too.
I tried all of the above, and not much worked.
What did work for me:
-hospital grade pump
-quite room with pic of my baby
-I took a medicine called Domperidone, rec'd by the Lactation Consultants at CHOP, it is a GI medicine, but increases your proloactin levels. You need a RX for it and it is a compound drug, so you have to get it at a compounding pharmacy. This really worked well for me. I took it routinely only on the days I was wroking and away from my baby for about 2 months. I had no side effects and it worked great.
You can always do 1/2 formula 1/2 breastmilk in the day care bottles if it comes down to not having enough supply, if you are okay with using formula.

Good luck.

After 3 months my supply went down,I was using a double pump mentioned already in one of the posts, I asked the Dr what to do. They suggested the fenu greek and I took it for a couple days and my supply went up to about 5 ML. I also didnt pump at night which was a factor and then I took a precribed medication after that (which I cant remember the name of it).You may want to ask your Doctor what else there is to take (and it was safe to take) after the fenu greek wears off. No side effects on the fenugreek you just smell like maple syrup..........

First, what kind of pump are you using? I would recommend a good quality double electric pump. (I used and loved the Medela Pump In Style) For some women hand expressing works better than any pump out there- I personally could not get a handle on it. Also, if you are using an electric pump, did you get it new? After time, they lose suction and can not stimulate a good let-down. (I found that out the hard way, could not figure out why it took soooo long to get anything with my daughter, after the fact I found out that pumps are only designed to last through one or 2 kids, and I used it for 4.)
I did use fenugreek with my 3rd, and it worked wonders, overnight. You have to take a lot. I was told that you have to take enough to make your urine smell like maple syrup. I don't remember exactly how much you have to take, but it is more than 1-2 per day. You can use both the femugreek and the tea together. The fenugreek is more to build your supply quickly and the tea helps to maintain it. I think I took the fenugreek for about a week, maybe a little longer.
To help with let-down, make sure that you are comfortable where ever you are pumping. Also, pictures of your baby, something with his scent, anything that makes you think of him.
I hope something here helps. You can also contact Le Leche League for other ideas if you get stuck.

Used it all with alot of success! Take the pills, and drink it! Drink all the tea you want! Also, oatmeal, dark beer(just a few ounces)......lots of water.........seriously like 10-12 glasses a day.........multi vitamin........lots of protein........!!!!!!Let down process is different for every mom........mine was a little slower......smelling of your baby's blanket.pic..somewhere quiet....relaxing..........No one should bother you....getting a great pump is a plus! Double electric pump..........Much success to you
During pregnancy, your appetite can soar. Your growing baby is drawing from your nutritional stores. But you're also hungry because your body is hard at work helping to prepare your milk supply.

After you give birth, good nutrition is even more important than during your pregnancy. It can make a difference in the quality of your breast milk and affect how quickly your body rebounds from childbirth.

Though doctors once routinely recommended an additional 500 calories a day for breastfeeding moms, today, experts say what you eat matters far more than your caloric intake.

"Beyond a doubt, the nutritious quality of the foods you eat is of major importance during breastfeeding. Simply adding empty calories, like those found in sugary snacks or junk food, is not going to help you or your baby," says Linda M. Hanna, IBCLC, program coordinator for Lactation and Prenatal Education Services at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles.

In fact, she says, if a mother isn't feeding herself with enough nutritious foods, the number of "dirty diapers" goes down, a sign that your baby may not be getting enough to eat.

Complex carbohydrates are among the best foods you can eat while breastfeeding, says Hanna. Build these into your daily diet:

Vegetables such as broccoli, cauliflower, bell peppers, squash, and beans

Fruits such as apples, berries, plums, oranges, peaches, and melons

Whole grains such as whole-wheat bread, rye bread, and brown rice

Not coincidentally, these are the same foods recommended for nursing mothers by the American Academy of Pediatrics. One extra benefit: this type of diet can also help you shed those post-pregnancy pounds.

"If you look at the Weight Watcher's diet for lactation, it's all about complex carb loading. It's one of the most successful long-term lactation weight loss programs for women. It helps them lose weight without sacrificing milk production," says Hanna.

In addition, Hanna says it's also important to get enough protein and fat in your diet. Aim for at least three to five servings (1 ounce each) of fat a day. These could be vegetable oils, butter, or even mayonnaise.

This, she says, will help your body to make a good supply of the super-fatty and satisfying "hind" milk that is expressed during the later half of each feeding, Hanna says.

"In the end we are talking about eating a balanced diet, with complex carbohydrates, protein, and fats, and with as little sugar and sugary snacks as possible," says Hanna.

Among the most important nutrients you need while breastfeeding is calcium -- a minimum of 1,000 mg daily is a must. While dairy foods are a great source, you don't have to drink milk to make milk. To meet your calcium needs, the American Academy of Pediatrics suggests five daily servings of any calcium-rich food, including low-fat yogurt and cheese, as well as nondairy foods such as salmon, broccoli, sesame seeds, tofu, and kale.