What Is Fair?

I have a 2 and 8 year old. Fair isn't even close. My 2 yo doesn't need the things that my 8 yo does. My 2 yo gets away with more things, because she is the baby. If kids are close in age it makes sense to make things more equal. I do feel bad and give in, I bought 2 soccer balls the other day, when I only need one. I pretend the handy downs I pull out are new and exciting. I guess fair could equal money spent vs tolerance.

First of all who said life was fair? You need to explain to miss smarty pants lawyer that Life will NEVER be fair and to get used to it. Who paid for the food? I am assuming you did, therefore ALL the leftovers were yours or whoever paid for it. Now if she doesnt 'get it', she will say she doesnt, start treating her like the 2 year old, repeating you want to be fair. give her 2 year old portions to eat and only let her watch her sister tv shows. She will figure out real quick what fair means.

You said near the top "My 12 year old had a burrito "
Well it was hers and she should have gotten it.

The other stuff about fair or not fair ~ well that sounds like life to me.

I'm sure there was no need for a spicy discussion
OVER fair or not fair about HER burrito.

I agree with your daughter, it wasn't fair.

I know that I am not telling you what you want to hear and I'm not trying to make you mad. I'm just giving you my thoughts.

= )

When I was growing up and one of us said that something wasn't fair my mother nearly always said, "sorry, but life is unfair." I would get frustrated and determined to give explanations whenever possible.

Some things are managed by rules. Turning off the lights is a rule for the family. A guest doesn't live in the house and therefore doesn't have to follow the family rules. We do treat guests differently than family members. It could be said that they've got the better deal. However, we're all guests at sometime and so it evens out.

In my and my daughter's house, take home leftovers belong to the person who ordered them. We frequently write our name on the container to remind someone that they belong to so and so. But if that's not the rule in your house then you go by whatever rule you have.

Making rules or guidelines for living together can be worked out over time. I prefer having family meetings so that the whole family can have input, especially when a child is school age. Twelve is a difficult age in that the brain development causes the child to pretty much look at things as black and white. It really helps to have them participate in this sort of rule making so that they will feel that things are more fair.

I'm sure she said you played favorites. Geez, that is so common among siblings. They will always believe that mom and dad have a favorite and it's not them. A fact of life. You can make an effort to reduce that feeling but the feeling will always be there.

Your girls are 10 years apart in age and there is no way that you can do the same thing or spend the same amount of money for each one. Don't even try and don't get into that discussion with the oldest one. There really are times that the most appropriate answer is, "I'm sorry you feel that way. Life is just not fair sometimes."

The more you try to convince her that you're being fair the more she'll fight with you about it. Play your, "I'm the parent." card and tell her that you do the best you can to treat both of your girls fairly but life is such that you can't always do it. Talk with her, when she's not complaining, about how you have to give them things differently because of their age differences. Remind her that you paid $200 for her camp and that she got toys instead when she was 2. What you do for each of them is based on their age and needs. That is the way life is.

I suggest that you read the book or listen on CD How To Talk So KIds Will Listen & Listen so Kids Will Talk by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. They've also written a book called Siblings Without Rivalry. How we feel about what someone says depends a lot on how we word what we say.

Accepting the other person's feelings makes a big difference too. It took me years to remember to say something like, "I know you're angry and think this was unfaiir. Now that I think about it, perhaps it was. But this is the best that I could do at the moment." Deal only with the one situation at that time. Do not allow the situation to turn into a "kitchen sink" argument during which she says, "you're always unfair," etc. Say, "we'll talk about this at another time" and then don't respond to whatever she says. If you feel that you have to say something repeat the same words.
And then later, when a particular situation has not caused a discussion, you bring up the subject and talk together about how she feels. Accept what ever she says. Don't argue with her. Tell her you'll listen to her thoughts and ask her to listen to yours. And if you can't reach an agreement then drop the subject with a I'm sorry that you're upset. IF you've gained a better understanding of what's going on with her, tell her that you heard what she said and you're sympathetic but you can't change what is. "Life is unfair."

Don't even try to make things even. My daughter tries to keep track of how many times, hours, nights that both of her children spend with me and from time to time tells me it's not fair because my granddaughter spends more time with me then my grandson. She puts the pressure on me to even it up. I listen and sympathize but I don't try to even it up. I also don't tell her that life is unfair. She knows that but just can't apply it in this situation. I agree with her that one has been here more than the other and that's the end of the conversation. Nothing changes. It's like she draws a line thru that total and starts over with keeping track. Somehow the two of us have silently agreed that this is the way it is and it's OK as long as she reminds me from time to time and I agree.

The bottom line for most of us is that we want to be heard. Try agreeing with your daughter. With practice both of you will let it drop once she's felt heard. She's a teen. You'll need to find someone else to hear you. This sight can help with that.

I guess it depends on the situation. I don't believe in equal everything for every occasion, it should depend somewhat on need. We have the same situation as your "burrito" incident all the time in my family. If there's enough leftovers from each person to take home as a whole other meal, it becomes "mine" to use to be part of dinner the next day or whatever. But if a member of our family says "I'm going to save part of this burrito to take home and eat tomorrow and I'd appreciate it if nobody else touches it", then it's theirs and we all keep our hands off. I have 7 and 9 yr old girls. They're less than 2 years apart and for the most part look and act like twins. Keeping things fair between them has been one of my challenges. It would be easy to just say "they get everything the same". But the truth is, there is an older sister who should get more privileges and responsibilities, and a younger sister who shouldn't be expected to do some things expected of her older sister and not have as many priviliges. My older one recently worked really hard to earn an iPod. Her younger sister immediately wanted one, too. How easy it would be to say "well SHE has one, so the little one should have one, too". But in this case, the younger one has to wait until she's 9 and then she can choose to either wait for her 10th birthday or work for it (chores, etc) to get enough points to earn it herself, just like her older sister.

My parents are also very fair to my siblings and myself. Every year, they gift us a certain amount (to avoid future inheritance taxes, etc) each. For the last couple of years, my sister has had some financial stress through no fault of her own (she's working full time, has a small child and is fully supporting her other in-laws financially). I told my parents to give her my portion for this year to help her out a bit. Is that "fair and equal"? Not really, I could certainly use the extra cash. But she needs it more than me right now and someday when I need it more than her, I'm sure it'll even out. Treating EVERYONE equally ALL THE TIME is ridiculous, because if everyone is treated according to need, it all evens out in the end and nobody feels like they missed out on anything. Of course, in some things, everyone always gets the same: if one gets an after dinner treat, they all do. If we're in Target and one of them actually succeeds in convincing me to buy them a toy (yeah, it happens to the best of us), they all get one. But lil sis doesn't get another piece of bread *just* because her sister wants one...if she's full, she's full and shouldn't have to eat the *exact* same amount as her sister (this is a current issue in our house if you can believe it!).

As far as the burrito, that was NOT fair. She may have been looking forward to eating it when she was ready for it. I know I often don't eat all of something, because then I know I can have it again. Did you ask your daughter if you could give some to the youngest? If not, then it was not fair.

As far as the rest of your questions- that is life. You provide what you need for your children, when they need it. That is what is fair. It isn't a dollar amount that makes it fair or unfair.

As far as the lights and the bathroom: Get over it! you could easily turn off the light in a shorter time than you spend complaining to your daughter about a guest. The guest doesn't know your rules.

I have 5 kids and one on the way they are 3-almost 15. So fairness is brought up from time to time. In our house what I feel is fair is not necessarily what the kids think is fair. Like you sometimes one gets a treat or new clothes or toys but not all. they have to roll with the punches. Life is about compromises and getting along with others and means in your own house too. Good Luck!

We don't even try to be fair. We give gifts for birthdays and holidays. We don't buy two of everything (my boys are 18 m. apart). If one of them complains, they are told that it is what it is. No whining. Of course, if you are talking about favoritism, that is a different story. But you can't go around making sure that everything is even or fair all the time. Life isn't like that. Why set them up for disappointment.

In my opinion it is good for children to realize and understand that life isn't fair. Your older daughter is capable of things that you younger one is not. She gets to do things that the younger one does not. She also has more responsibilities and expectations than a 2yr old. The younger child get things that the older one doesn't. It's the same way in the real world. A child's friend may get a toy or something that you don't allow in your home. Your child may think that is unfair. In school, another student, who didn't work as hard may get a better grade. Things are never even and 'fair' in life. It's better for them to start understanding and getting use to it now, than having a rude awakening when they're older.

I think some clear examples can be helpful and humorous. Like only do your dishes and wash one quarter of the pot, etc. She gets to clean her share - that's fair. She gets to wash her clothes. She gets to pay her 1/4 of the rent. She gets to buy her clothes, pay for gas which pays for the car to take her to school, etc.

12 year olds are thinking, challenging, figuring things out. Assure her you love her, don't argue, be calm. "I'm willing to talk to you about this, but when you are civil. Come back to me when you are ready to speak kindly." With my younger ones, we talk about it being okay to disagree or be upset - but not to whine, yell or hit, etc. 'Use your words.'

This way you are not shutting her down, but also training her in how to speak respectfully - something she needs now and her whole life.

I think you should be fair...to an extent. My mother in law thinks everything has to be exactly even. My husband's college cost more then his brothers (neither of them had any idea), so she spoiled his brother with whatever he wanted, because she felt bad. His brother left college not knowing how to save money, work, or buy things for himself. If she buys my son (her grandson) a little gift, she will give my brother in law and equal amount of cash. If she meets my husband and I for lunch, she will send my brother and law cash for the same amount. If you try to make everything even, it will get out of control. I'm not sure you want your children, to think if someone gets something around them, they should get something as well. It's impossible to be fair all across the board and get everyone something at all times. It's silly, really. However, if someone were to get gifts and treat a child better...just because of preference...that is entirely wrong. Children should be loved and treated equally.

There is a large age difference between your kids so I am sure the younger one gets more attention whereas the older one gets "stuff" that is more expensive but that is just because of the age. I am sure if they were closer in age things would be a lot different. But like you said you don't eat out very often so it's a treat when you do, if that's the case then I don't think you should have given your dghtrs food away without asking her first.

My sister is 7 yrs younger than me & I was sick and tired of my mother giving in to my younger sister at my expense. It affected my relationship with my younger sister because as she got older she new she could always get what was mine because my mom said I was "old enough" & it shouldn't have bothered me, but it did. Her & I had a crappy relationship for many many years.

I say if your older daughter has something that is suppose to be hers then it should stay hers & she should have a say if she wants to share it or give it away.

Life isn't fair. Your oldest does/get things that is appropriate for her age (things her sister will do/get when she is older)...just like she did or got things when she was young that your youngest is getting now.

As for left over food, in our house whose ever food it was when order gets first dibs for once it is home.

I treat my children equally. My children are aged 6 and 3. If my 3 year old gets something that the 6 year old does not I explain why and how my 6 year old can have x instead of y. There is no need to be unfair to your children and explaining the reasoning behind why things are different for each of them can further their understanding of family dynamics. At least that's the way it has worked in our family.

First, we dont use the word "fair" in my house, my kids were never allowed to pull the "That's not fair" on me. They are very clear on the concept that fair is not a word that means "I don't like it."
I don't agree with the mom who said that she treats her kids equally and explains everything about why each kid gets what to them. I don't always treat my kids (15 and 11) equally - they are individuals and I give them what they need, not what the other has. If one needs a new pair of sneakers and the other's are still in good shape, they don't get new converse just because the other sibling did. If I have you out shopping for school clothes or something, I can buy you an ice cream and whoever was at home is out of luck and that's just how it is. I also do not find it necessary to justify my actions to my kids, I don't kids are owed explanations.
That said, yes you bought the burrito, but when food has been served to you on your plate, I think of it as yours. I would not have served it to the other kid. Your 12 year old thought she was going to get to eat it and was looking forward to it, she thought of it as her meal.
As for when 14 year old auntie visits, it would be fine for you to tell her, "Could you please shut the light off when you are done in the bathroom?" but auntie is a guest, just like a 40 year old aunt, even though she is close to your daughter's age. Your daughter feels a sense of jealousy and competition, that you are not "disciplining" your sister close in age as you do to her.
You don't need to even out the camp money, that is an age appropriate thing, when the youngest is 12, she will get sent to camp too. I would not buy no-occasion toys for one kid without getting something for the other. I got mad at hubby once, he had the kids out and they ended up in the craft store, the kids must have been 9 and 5. Daughter saw a craft item she wanted so hubby bought it for her, and my son got nothing and was sad. Hubby claimed there was nothing there for him, but come on, it is a craft store - if it was me, I'd have gotten him a pack of stickers or a little paint set, or made my daughter pay for the no-occasion craft item out of her own allowance.
If the older one complains a lot about what the youngest gets, you may need to point out the privileges that she gets as a 12 year old and remind her that she was treated the same way as her sister when she was two but that she had her mommy all to herself at that age.
Don't make things "fair" = equal. Give each what she needs.

Specifically in regards to the burrito... Nope. Not fair at all.

That was actually a "rule" in my house growing up called "The quick and the hungry." The kids went 2 ways about it. One group snarfed as much as the could LONG past when they were full, and the other group "hid" their food for later. It would often spoil and make us sick (because we couldn't refridgerate it... or it would get "stolen") So the second group frequently got food poisoning, and the first group got fat. Neither is really a healthy dynamic.

So when I married my husband, I made it law: Each person has their OWN food. If you want some of someone else's: ask. And be prepared to get a "No, I'm saving that for later" answer. When my son started solids, the law held. He eats 5-6 meals a day. MANY of which are what's left over from a previous meal. One of the things I just revel in is that he only eats as much food as he wants at the time. LOVE that.

The thing is... I tell my kiddo "The world isn't fair. So I try and make things as fair as possible here at home, but they won't always be. Sometimes we need expediency. And expediency is almost NEVER fair."

My mum didn't CARE about fair. She cared about what was easiest for HER. Which is legitimate. For one thing, there were a LOT of us, and only one of her. She was the adult, and it was her choice. In fact, she would be the first to admit that it wasn't fair, and she wasn't *trying* to be fair. I resented it enough to pull a 180 now that *I'M* the adult. But they're both equally valid options.

To Quote the movie Labyrinth "No. It's not fair. But that's the way it is."

As to the rest... that's less about fair (IMHO) than :

- Different rules apply when guests are present
- Age appropriateness
- Expediency

you know what, i think you're doing it right. the 12 year old just needs to be told, life isn't fair. sorry. she should be quite able to understand that a two year old doesn't understand the things she does, and therefore the rules might be slightly different for her. sounds like the 12 year old is suffering from a bit of jealousy. she is nearly a teenager, she is old enough to have patience for her little sister. stick to your guns mom. your 12 year old is just trying to play you.