So, something is up this year and, for the life of me, I don't know what it is. My daughter has never had trouble in school. Never. She has no behavioral problems, is not shy, has shown no evidence of learning disability. Last year she was on the principal's honor roll and won the citizenship award, so no academic or behavior problems.
Then comes 5th grade. Still no behavior problems, but when her progress report came out she had a "C" in math. Okay, that's fine. We don't expect perfection and a "C" is certainly not failing, but I still am concerned about the fact that she has shown no struggle before and I would like to know the source of the change. Is she not understanding concepts, is she not taking her time, is she not paying attention to the details, is she anxious and shutting down? If it's something we can work with, then I want to, because math is one of those subjects that builds on itself and if you miss what's happening now, you have trouble with what you are doing next.
I went to the parent/teacher conference and voiced my concerns. She said that my daughter was really quiet in class, that she would like to see her participate in discussions, that she's very, very reserved and shy. What?????? Since when? All I can say is that's not my daughter. Or at least it hasn't been. She has always spoken up. She has always been involved. She has always been a leader in team projects. This is not the girl that's been going to school for the last 5 years. I also found out that they have her in a reading lab 30 minutes a day for reading fluency. What????? She reads above grade level. On last years standardized tests she scored advanced and at this years beginning she scored at grade level. If she needs to improve her fluency, isn't that something she can do at home? She reads all the time! Even without being told or filling in her reading log for school. And, why wasn't I told she was going to be taken out of class to work on this? This is information that's good for me to know.
So, I guess my question to all you moms and teachers out there is, what the heck is up? Has this ever happened to you? One year your kid did a complete turn around?
This is starting to effect her self esteem. She's starting to freak out when knew math concepts are introduced. I don't think her teacher is the problem, She seems to be a really caring and attentive woman who takes her job super seriously, yet my daughter says she is afraid to talk to her. I would totally understand if she had a learning disability. We have a child with one and I know it's not about how intelligent he is, so I wouldn't be the parent in denial. But nothing has indicated in any part of her learning that that's the issue.
Has this happened, and what did you do?
Thanks for all the great words of advice. Everyone has really been tried to be thoughtful and helpful in there responses and I appreciate that. To clarify:
My daughter hates her grade in math, we have established with her that we are not pressuring her to make a certain grade so much as that we want to make sure she understands what she is doing. Her best work is good enough for us. When I say that she gets anxious when knew concepts are introduced, I mean she is so worried that she WON'T understand, that even explaining how to do it causes her to cry and shut down. She is horribly afraid of failure. She is embarassed to look "dumb" in front of her friends. She is scared to ask her teacher for help or go to her with concerns because she is afraid her teacher will get mad. I asked if she had any history of this with the teacher and she said, "no."
Her comprehension in reading is great. The fluidity with which she reads is what they are working on. She is turning in all homework. The rest of her grades are A's and one B.
Hi, L.:
The child that you spoke about with a LD may be affecting her.
Have you explored with her, her feelings about her brother with LD?
Just a thought.
Good luck.
D.
Sit down with your daughter, and have a heart to heart talk.
Don't lecture or project any ideals on her or her past performance comparing her to now... just, talk with her, about the now.
Just let her express herself... and ask her why, this is happening or if she even knows why?
Talk about her and her life with her, etc.
Don't just focus on how smart she is or her 'performance' or her learning. Concentrate, on talking about 'her.'
Her friends, her interests, her feelings, her.
Is she happy?
Her age now, is a hard age.
She is a Tween.
In 5th grade, LOTS of changes occurs.
Google search "Tween girl development."
Reading fluency has nothing to do with the amount of reading a person does. When teachers see students struggling with understanding context or the meaning of what they just read, or in explaining, analyzing or interpreting what they just read, or if they struggle in reading outloud so that the text doesn't flow from their lips or they are unable to emphasize key words in a text to impart meaning to those hearing it, then they are considered to have a problem with fluency.
Perhaps there was a significant jump in the curriculum this year, and now she's unable to keep up and it's affecting her performance. Or perhaps she has something medical or physical going on and it's affecting her performance. Is there a problem with friends or fitting in at school? Any of these things could explain why she did well in years past, but suddenly is struggling now.
I'd start looking at physical and environmental factors first...considering she was always a good student up until now. Any diet changes? New medications? I just saw a documentary on Dr. Mercola's web page www.mercola.com reporting an upswing in girls having problems such you described after getting vaccines (Gardisil in particular). See: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/1...
Don't discount learning disability just because she's in 5th grade and undiagnosed. Sometimes things aren't so obvious until schoolwork gets demanding. Many kids go for years undiagnosed with ADHD and spectrum disorders only find out they had a disorder all along but were borderline or high functioning.
If it's not that, what about depression and peer pressure? Are there problems with friends at school? Problems with a teacher?
For now, I'd consider a health check up, a program like Sylvan or Huntington to help her catch up in school, and a good chat to see how things are going at school and in life in general and see what you come up with from there.
I think you might have hit the nail on the head when you said "yet my daughter says she is afraid to talk to her." If your child is afraid of the teacher and afraid to ask questions, that may be the reason for the dropping grades. Try to find out why she's afraid of the teacher and maybe schedule an appointment for both of you to meet with the teacher. Hope you get this figured out.
It's the age, she is prepubescent. Even if there are no physical signs she's going through a lot of social and emotional growth, not to mention hormonal changes. Girls often become introverted and very h*** o* themselves at this age. They are hypersensitive to what other's think of them and they are terrified of looking "dumb."
Keep the lines of communication open, and fasten your seat belt, this is just the beginning, the next five years are going to be one wild ride!
A few things. When I was in 5th grade, I just could not memorize the multiplication tables.. For some reason they were all jumbled in my head.. They would do those timed tests on multiplication and I would freak out. So I got further and further behind.
Also when was her last eye exam? You may wan to have her eyes checked,. We found out I needed glasses in 4th grade. I had no idea.. It was a fluke. I had missed the exam in 3rd grade, so they pulled me in for the test and I could not see a thing from where I sat. Not the Chalk board not the overhead... Maybe her hearing?
Also her body is changing and I started my period in 5th grade. I was moody, I was tired, I did not know what was going on and then one day at music lessons it just started..
Also if she is intimidated by her teacher or teachers that could be a problem. She is embarrassed to ask for help because she has never had that problem in the past.
If she is truly struggling, she is not used to this. She is used to the work coming easily but now it is not easy, could be she is afraid of failure and confused.
What is going on at home? Any changes, any talk about worries? My parents never realized, I knew what was going on with the lack of money, worries about their jobs, family problems. It made me worry too. I always felt like I had to be concerned about the worst. About what was about to happen, even though I am sure it was just typical adult.. conversations.
Last thing find out if something has happened to her. She may be worried about telling you. She may feel shame, she may be frightened.
Let her find a safe space and time, to just be honest about what is going on with her.
I can totally relate! When my daughter was in the 5th grade I also noticed her grade going down to a C in math... Talk to the school about after school tutoring programs, im sure they have them. I was lucky to find out that one of the teacher's at my daughter's school was doing tutoring and would come out to our home, she charged $20 an hour which is very reasonable. She would even come twice a week during the summer. Math is a very difficult subject and is understandable when a child is struggling, it's normal. We just need to motivate our children to try and put their all in earning a higher grade. Also, the tutor that I had for my daughter is now tutoring out son and she is phenomenal! Very patient and she makes it fun for the kid's! I hope it all works out for the best! Good luck and hope you have a wonderful Holiday season!
How about a tutor?
Make sure there isn't someone in her class that is making her nervous
(bully). Always a good conversation to have with all that has been in the
news. After that consideration, I say a tutor at home could be helpful.
Maybe she is embarassed she isn't getting the basic concepts.
Maybe she really is having a hard time with this subject.
It would not be the first time. I am brilliant (kidding) and had a hard time
w/physics & chemistry in high school. Stuck it out though and studied
my butt off with 2 different girlfriends in high school (both in these same
classes of mine).
If I were you I'd really try to open the lines of communication with your daughter. Try to spend a lot of quiet time with her, go for walks, lunch, talk in the car. One thing that's missing from you post is how she feels about all this. It's common for girls to slip in Math and Science at this age. It's also commom for some kids (even outgoing ones) to have a hard time talking to their teachers. It can be intimidating even with the most approachable ones. She needs to learn how to interact with teachers really well, she's going to have a lot of different ones in a year or two and communication is almost as important as classwork.
You should always be informed when your child is pulled from the classroom for extra help in a subject and you also have the right to know exactly why. I would find out what she's missing in class while she's gone for 30 min a day as well and discuss other ways to improve her reading fluency if needed. Sadly, the reason for that could just be her slip in the standardized tests. Some schools are so desparate for better scores they take kids they know can score higher (even if the child's score is at grade level) and work with them to get those scores back up. They do not always have the child's best interest in mind.
Finally, it really sounds like you feel something is wrong. You need to calmly and carefully persue that intuition. Gently, over time talk to your daughter, her teacher and anyone else she has contact with regularly. If you feel something is off there is a really good chance you're right and it has little to do with her getting a C in math. Your very best source for information about what is happening is your daughter.
It could be a teacher disconnect. To you the teacher seems caring, attentive, and takes her job seriously. There is a chance she may have a totally different personality when its only the students, no parents. Your DD sounds a little intimidated at school this year. Does she like her teacher or teachers? Maybe she's seen other students get scolded or belittled, therefore doesn't want to speak up in class or ask for help.
There could be bullies, cliques. I've seen 5th grade be the hardest year for a lot of girls. It's very hard when everyone else seems to have paired with a best friend, "popularity" is suddenly a big deal, kids start to feel awkward. Even recess, which used to be so much fun can be suddenly stressful and dreaded. My oldest DD had a very rough 5th grade year. 6th and 7th grade so far are better.
I would monitor her math lessons and homework at home, help her understand when she isn't "getting it" from the school instruction. I would not make a big deal of the reading help, other than to say it's a good thing, and keep having her read whatever she wants at home. And I would share her teacher's feedback that it would be good for her speak up more and participate more in class discussion.
my daughter had this problem in 5th grade. her and her teacher didn't have the best of character mixes. both are great people they just didn't gel. my daughter also cries and gets frustrated when i try to explain homework to her because she's upset she isn't getting it. my daughters main problem is that she is bored and careless so she rushes through tests and ends up missing easy questions just because of this. whenyou have only 10 questions on a test one wrong answer is a 90. can you go to school with her for the day? see what she's learning and how she pays attention?[
by the way the next yer my daughteer stepped up her game, i believe because she got a teacher she loved.
Is there a classroom bully somewhere, hiding in the shadows? It seems odd that she would have made a complete turnaround in a year. Sounds like an effort problem to me. Is she attending the same school? Trouble with friends? What's different in her social life that is effecting her so.
Second, why has the teacher not communicated with you by email or phone? Where are your daughter's graded notebooks and papers? Why are you not seeing them? Our school participates in electronic notification of grades. Do they offer anything like that?
I remember this from fourth grade. All of a sudden I was scared of what the other kids thought of me, and I didn't want to get a wrong answer, especially in front of the class, for fear that they would make fun of me. It was worse in math for some reason. I sat in the back of the room and when I was called on 20 other hands went up. I could barely see the board as it was, but couldn't see it at all through the other hands. I was afraid to say something to the teacher, so I just told her that I didn't understand. I was so happy to move to the low math class, I knew I knew the answers and wouldn't have to worry about not knowing, and I knew that that teacher gave out candy, which was an added plus. At that age I would deliberately not hand my homework in because other peers didn't hand theirs in. They shyness lasted all through school. I wish now I could have just spoken up. I would get her eyes checked and see where she is sitting in the room. Maybe have the counselor work with her on self esteem.
I feel for you so much! I too have a fifth grade girl. The recommendations below are all good -- delve into whether she is possibly being bullied; but also try to find out whether she seems to have any close friends in her class. She may not be a bullying victim but instead isolated and lonely if she feels she has no real friends. If that's the case, talk to the school counselor (first time, without your child there, and then get the counselor to set up regular meetings with just your daughter). The counselor should have ideas about building social networks etc. -- IF that is the base issue.
I agree that the school should have told you BEFORE they put her into reading fluency lessons. You need another meeting with the teacher and ask that the counselor and possibly anyone else on the "teaching team" be there. (Many schools by fifth grade send kids to different teachers for different subjects, so be sure all your daughter's academic teachers are there, for instance, if she has a different teacher just for language arts or for social studies.) Tell them you believe you should have been notified and should have had the reasons for the fluency lessons explained to you -- how can you help her at home if you don't even know she is receiving this special help?? Are there other things going on at school academically or personally that you don't know about? Can you volunteer in the classroom to see what's going on? That can help but also doesn't always work, since kids tend to behave differently if there is a different adult present.
Also bring up math and get full details on HOW math is being conveyed to the kids this year. Is she in an "accelerated" or "gifted" math program where they do (as my daughter's teacher puts it) "A concept each day, homework on that concept, and the next day we move on to a new concept." That is very fast progress that we have found does not allow any time for kids to do repetition of math problems to build their confidence and make mistakes they can learn from; the test comes up and boom, they are doing problems on concepts they had for one day, three weeks before the test.
Here's what you may have to do: Monitor her homework assignments; make sure she brings home all she needs each day; then check each assignment after she does it; have her immediately go back over problems she got wrong; and keep a copy of her homework sheet so you have that as a sample to create more practice problems for her. I know this sounds like "helicopter parenting" but frankly if we did not do this and did not give our daughter extra math practice on our own, she would struggle, because (a) the concepts are flyiing by them so fast in class, despite the teacher's hard work, and (b) the teacher has 32 kids in the class and therefore cannot ever know each individual child's weaknesses on specific math concepts. It's sad but it's the way things are -- too many kids combined with teachers forced to move fast through the curriculum to meet requirements put on the teachers by the school system. If your child is as you say freaking out with new math concepts she needs extra help that the teacher, even if she's wonderful, simply does not have time to give her, and she needs repetition to practice math problems.
If you can't do it yourself, find a tutor. Or ask the teacher if there is any form of math club -- not the kind where super-math-whiz-kids do hard problems but the kind where a teacher meets maybe one day a week before school with kids who want extra help. Some teachers offer this and some don't. But you will have to monitor and check the homework every single night no matter what. If you are already -- assess whether she needs a reward system for doing extra math problems for you, especially as test times approach. It sounds too like she could use tons of praise this year; don't be afraid to really let her know how great she's doing and even if she's not doing great, praise her then for working hard and making an effort.
I also agree with the person who said that though the teacher seems good, your daughter still says she is afraid to talk to her. You need to sit down with your child when she is happy and calm and not upset about schoolwork (not on a day a grade comes home, for instance) and gently find out why she is afraid. Does the teacher have a tough reputation among students that scares your child? Does the teacher yell at some kids but not your daughter, who still is scared by the yelling? Is it the whole new classroom situation rather than actually the teacher herself that scares your child? Is there something outside school going on in her life that is upsetting her and she's transferring those fears to school?
Please let us know what you find out. I really do feel for your little girl.
is she doing homework, thats about the grade i decided i didn't want to do omework and it affected my grades.
My 4th grade daughter is doing this too!
5th grade is when the "Mean Girls" syndrome starts - at least it did for me. Make sure she isn't getting picked on or even bullied by other kids in her class. That could explain the sudden shyness and awkward behavior. My classmates tortured me in 5th grade and my grades went from A's and B's to B's and C's and an occasional D. Just talk to her and make sure that's not what's happening.
