Marysville High School Shooting Revisited

"this isn't about guns"
Yes, because it's just as easy for a person to walk into a room with a knife and mow down dozens of people within a matter of seconds.
SMH.

I think Lori and Elena are onto something. Today's kids have precious little practice managing disappointment. This is the generation of kids that grew up expecting a trophy for showing up, because it's only fair for everyone to get one and everyone to be celebrated. For games to be played with no score kept so that there are no "losers."

There are valuable personal skills to be learned by losing. Frankly, aside from some mental health issues, this kid sounds like a sore loser. And societally, we have now raised a generation of kids like this. So, I don't expect the school shootings to stop anytime soon, unfortunately. :(

I don't know why this debate always leads to people saying it's NOT one thing or the other. It's NOT about guns, it's ONLY about mental health. It's NOT about mental health, it's ONLY about guns. Though I actually haven't heard the latter since most people who are against guns realize the people who use them for evil are mentally disturbed. Thus the need to keep them from saturating the population because there will always be tons of disturbed people. Thus the reason other free countries do not feel it's wise to have an overly-armed population.

It's both. It's BOTH the prevalence of easy access to guns and the negligence of people to let them get into children's hands and the criminals who pass guns around illegally in countless numbers a.k.a. the QUANTITY of guns in America and the lack of adequate regulation on those guns. It's ALSO mental health. There will ALWAYS BE mentally disturbed people and negligent people and family feuds and criminals who get their mitts on guns. There have always been and always will be angry people and violent people.

This is the case in every country on earth.
There are less deaths by guns in places with less guns. That is a fact.

I live close to where this happened. Just about 20 minutes south.
About 45 minutes ago another girl died, bringing the total to three dead. The shooter and two girls. There are still 2 more fighting for their lives and one more who is in critical condition.
Horrible.
What is even MORE horrible is that we will probably never know what caused this to happen.
He was a good kid from a tight family with tight ties to his Native American heritage. He was NOT diagnosed as depressed and I do not think that he was a democrat (although I could be wrong, and that may expalin everything. SMH~~~~insert sarcasm)
I do not think that arming the teachers would have done a damn thing. The boy shot the gun, point blank at the students one right after the other. His gun got stuck and a teacher tried to take it away/stop him. We do not know if he shot himself on purpose or if it was an accident.
We may never know what the issue was. There is speculation that he was turned down by a girl, but THAT should NEVER be a reason to shoot someone!
He was 14. His body was raging with hormones (as evidence by his scuffle on the football field and his sadness with being rejected by a girl) and he decided to take matters into his own hands. With a gun. That he found at his house.
This is a boy who was an avid fisherman (according to news reports), knew how to hunt (according to his facebook and news reports) and had obviously been taught about how to use a firearm and when.
THIS boy was a boy who was popular, well liked, and did not meet the "criteria" for being a killer.
Yet he was.
Why?
We may never know the answer. There may not BE an answer.
But, I have to wonder.....if he didn't have access to a gun would things have been different?

This is so sad on so many levels. The families of this child will be asking themselves your question for the rest of their lives. I think there's a lot wrong with the way society pressures our kids.

First we (society) expects them to be in the dating scene at premature ages. Then we're surprised when they can't handle the backlash immature thinking. Our kids are programmed if they don't have a boyfriend/girlfriend they're an outcast and they need to be on the hunt for one. What happened to figuring out you don't need someone else to make you happy. Your happiness is directly related to you and is your responsibility? My daughter's friends are 15 and they talk constantly about how they have to find a boyfriend soon and if they don't have one their not normal. I was flabbergasted in kindergarten with the MOTHERS who were having their daughter's "boyfriends" over for dinners or setting up movies and shopping for Christmas presents for their boyfriend. Grrr!

Couple immaturity in relationships, add sex and teenage feelings (intense and they feel everything at level 10) and you have a recipe for disaster. I am amazed at the number of kids in my daughter's youth group who are being actively treated for depression or anxiety. :(

Next is social media. When I was growing up if we had an issue with a kid at school at least we had a break from it when we weren't at school. We were not accessible 24/7. Now, not so much. a person can torment you to their hearts content. Can you block them? Sure. Then they post things on Instagram or facebook or whatever. Again, most kids in from 12 up struggle with self confidence. A lot fail to realize that what is happening won't be so important in 6 weeks, 6 months or 6 years.

It is a volatile time for teenagers. I keep reminding my daughter that happiness comes from within not dependent on your outside circumstances. She doesn't have a boyfriend and sees the grief lots of her friends go through.

I don't have answers. My heart breaks for all involved. Our kids are hurting each other on scales that are hugely different from when I grew up. It's hard to think that could be your daughter involved with a boy who for whatever reason doesn't want her to break up with him and do something irreparable because of it.

Blessings!
L.

I truly believe that the problem is not guns, knives, or whatever weapon or item that might be used as a weapon.

The problem is anger. A machine gun in the hands of a person who has been taught self-control, who has not been indulged or spoiled, who has not been taught by a bitter vengeful person that everyone is out to get him or her, who has been taught forgiveness, who knows that life is not always fair but sinking to the level of the bullies or the tormentors won't solve anything, who has been raised with compassion, who has seen appropriate responses to difficult situations modeled by responsible adults, who has had outlets such as art or music or sports is not usually a danger.

A kitchen spatula or a shoe or a pebble in the hands of a person who only knows revenge or hatred, or who has been taught that they're not getting what they deserve (the girl, the job, the money, the car, the Xbox, the trendy clothes or shoes - without hard work and truthfulness and accountability) and therefore the score must be evened by violent means can be a dangerous weapon.

We don't need to remove every weapon, every gun-shaped piece of toast, every pair of tweezers. We need instead to teach our children that sometimes life isn't fair, and not to expect something for nothing. We need to teach them that instead of sinking to the other person's level (cutting off the driver who just cut them off, sending an angry social media message about the person who just did it to them), they need to be the better person, to demonstrate maturity and kindness. They need to see forgiveness and acceptance modeled by mature adults. They need to learn accountability, dependability, and responsibility. I've seen several football players lately who praised their mothers, and said their moms would not accept any profanity or impolite manners, who took them to church or to the YMCA, who made them rake the elderly neighbor's yard or shovel their driveway, and who worked two or three jobs to keep the family together. I don't see those guys striking out with weapons. Of course there are exceptions, as there always will be.

But I still think that unresolved anger, with no life lessons as to how to handle it or personal resources that have been instilled in these kids, produces violence.

Charge the parents who negligently left the gun accessible with the crime of the minor. It might make a few people think twice before being so relaxed with where they leave their firearms.

Not that this would have helped in the Sandy Hook situation, but it might help curb at least a few of these.

If you need a gun in your house, you have to be fully responsible for it. From the number of guns landing in the hands of minors, I would say too many people are not.

I haven't read your posts nor the news link. I did read a piece yesterday though.

I don't know whether it could have actually been prevented because to prevent something like this or any thing at any level of something dangerous, tragic or otherwise means Everyone has to work together for the same cause and hold the same image and ethic and ideal and goal in mind and have the same unity concerning the method of prevention.

People are not in a mind set of knowing how to heal this troubled world. We're all so interested in our little selves and opinions, our fears and outrage and etc. etc. etc. that we haven't calmed down enough to look into and beyond to the answers, true answers. A lot of people have gotten so bad that they don't really see these things anymore, their heads are buried in their ipad or whatever that it's become their addiction, their escape, and isn't that how all addiction begins. So many don't take any of it seriously unless it happens to them or a love one.

This is one complicated, mixed up world but it doesn't really have to be. How many lives must be sacrificed before everyone sees the need for healing this planet, this world of humans. Every thought matters, every action, every motive, every intention. We must lift our thoughts, our hearts. Every single thing begins with thought, thought is the power, is the light or lack thereof of the thing. Enlighten the heart, enlighten the mind and seek the highest ought to be everyone's highest intention. (to put it simply)

It really does take one person at a time and to help as many along as possible.

My heart goes out to each of these precious souls.

Your comparison of knife attacks to the increasingly common and complex issue of gun violence in America undermines your credibility. Just because you find one example doesn't mean it's a comparable situation.

How can we have an intelligent discussion when you perpetuate the myth that this isn't about guns? Pervasiveness of guns in our society, gun culture and the power of the gun lobby has a whole lot to do with the situation we all find ourselves in whether you want to admit it or not.

Restoring funding to mental health services might be a good idea too. Seems things have been trimmed down to almost nothing so we've got no where to go but up. But wait, isn't help for the mentally ill considered and entitlement program? Uh Oh.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/04/map-states-cut-tr...

ADDED: Who was comparing except you? Now you're adding a different utensil into the discussion? I used to compare certain responses with others on here but it just got too easy to connect the dots and I got bored with it. This isn't an actual discussion on the horror of gun violence, it's predictably turned into a tit for tat and I'm guilty too. Sorry ladies!

I have not followed this story and do not know details. It is bothersome from what I've heard so far and sound like he was targeting family.

I do find some of the replies insulting to you, W. W..

Of course none of us have the same opinion but it still does not make anyone on this or any forum correct or incorrect. No one should have credibility challenged for simply posting an opinion. We all have opinions and many times they are different! I respect that we all have differences but gees... Why drag someone through the mud?

I tend to believe that mental illness and anger issues are huge and we have yet to figure out how to help people because it is such "taboo" for many families to admit there is an issue. I don't care if there is an issue with a family I know, I will do what I can to help them, not sit back and judge them.

I have a child who was threatened many times from 9-12 grades. I am SO glad I spent the time and money to put her through private martial arts instruction so she is empowered and if she were to be attacked, I have no doubt she has the mental and physical strength to take care of herself. This has been demonstrated in her 8th grade yr shortly after hurricane Katrina and when our schools got a lot of kids in grade levels that were actually 1-2 yrs older than the normal grade level student. Her black belt paid for itself in that instance!

I don't feel it's all about guns, and for the record the strongest thing I carry is a stun gun. I'm like Gamma on this one... I don't need to carry a gun!

Let's just keep the post as objective and peaceful as possible because there are flaming opinions from all sides here. Bottom line, we are moms and dads just looking out for our friends, family and children.

There seems to be a mental health crisis where people are acting out their anger in hugely inappropriate ways.

It goes back farther than people like to think about.
The whole phrase 'going postal' developed due to a number of postal workers getting violent at work.

Maybe Anger Management needs to be required classes in school.
Has there been any study making any correlation between school size and violent incidents?
We didn't use to have a lot of schools with 1600+ students attending.
If you put too many hamsters in one cage they'll turn cannibal and eat each other.
No I don't think it's strictly about guns.
There are plenty of laws against weapons at schools.
It doesn't stop the people who are too distraught to care about laws/repercussions from doing it anyway.
The mental health issues where people visualize revenge (admit it - we ALL do it) vs actually performing it are way out of whack.

There are many factors involved in this national epidemic of school shootings:

Easy access to unsecured firearms including AR-15's (although not used in this latest shooting)

A rise in mental health issues in kids and teens

A disconnect of people in general due to all of the electronic devices we use. I see teens in public texting the person they're sitting next to instead of talking to them.

Parents not being involved in their teens lives, not checking in to see how they're doing, not monitoring their electronic devices, not caring about who their friends are etc...

Many things need to be addressed/changed, but the biggest issue is guns. Yes, it is about guns. On a personal level, I hate guns. I absolutely abhor them. I've been a gun control advocate for over 25 years since my brother was killed in an accidental shooting at our neighbor's house when a hunting rifle was left loaded on a basement coffee table. And even though I despise the things, I am not for a complete ban. What I am for is common sense gun control: Mandatory background checks, mandatory safety features. Smart guns that can only be operated by the registered owner, stricter regulations for getting guns, longer waiting periods, more training for concealed carry/open carry permits, and prosecution every time, for every person who is irresponsible with their firearm and causes an injury or death as a result of that irresponsibility.

Until these things happen, nothing will change and this epidemic will continue. If anything/or anyone else was killing Americans, coming into our schools and killing our children at such an alarming rate, the government would be all over themselves to stop it. Look at the Ebola "crisis" in America. We've had maybe 5 cases, and it's a crisis. But since this is about our almighty guns, we have to overlook it and pretend there isn't a problem. It's unacceptable. To fear every time my children go to school, or to a mall, or to the movies that they might get shot doesn't feel like freedom to me, America. Our kids having to go through lockdown drills at school makes me feel like we live in a war zone. And you know what? We do. My 12 yr old daughter and I were recently watching a show on PBS about the Holy Lands. I told her how I'd always wanted to visit them, but that it is too dangerous to travel there. She asked why and I described the war zone and how people walk around with guns and shoot up schools etc...and she said what's the difference? It happens right here in America. And sadly, she's right. We're probably no safer here than we would be in the heart of Gaza.

I read this to my oldest son. He said "don't blame your behavior on someone else. You are 100% responsible for the choices you make." He said that kid would've found a way to hurt others even if he didn't have gun. Out of the mouths of babes...

It's not about guns. And just because we don't think it's not about guns, we aren't uninformed. We realize, just like my son said, that it doesn't matter if there weren't guns, they would find a rock, knife, gas/fire, anything.

Guns are tools. NOT TOYS. My kids know this. I love Bird's response on what she is teaching her kids!

I love the analogy of replacing words with spoons and obesity. Many won't get it and get upset. They are so stuck on guns are the enemy. They aren't.

I'm sorry to the poster who lost her brother.

People will never get it - those who are for our rights being stripped from us. Even though they fail to realize that taking away the rights of law abiding citizens will NOT stop the violence. There is no point in bashing your head against a wall with those kinds of people. Guns are NOT to blame. Spoons are NOT to blame. PEOPLE are responsible for their actions. If it's not guns, it will be something else. Some just don't get that. I feel sorry for those people.

Lori H, Elena & Isn't this fun are absolutely correct.

You ask if theres "anything one could do to stop it"? Yes, parents to be more involved, schools should have morals/spiritual classes, more voluntary work, whatever it takes to turn things around. I'm sure my views won't be popular but banning guns will never happen so what is plan B?

W. W.:

Our culture has changed from a farming community to an industrial community to a technological community.

What does that mean for society? It means that we no longer have a community of friends and family who look out for each other.

You are writing on this social media to communicate. In days past, we had people we could talk to face-to-face and get a smile, a hug, or encouragement.

We don't belong to anyone now. We face a screen with no interpersonal contact.

We have done all this because we want to be better than anyone else.
God save our country.
D.

Updated

W. W.:

Our culture has changed from a farming community to an industrial community to a technological community.

What does that mean for society? It means that we no longer have a community of friends and family who look out for each other.

You are writing on this social media to communicate. In days past, we had people we could talk to face-to-face and get a smile, a hug, or encouragement.

We don't belong to anyone now. We face a screen with no interpersonal contact.

We have done all this because we want to be better than anyone else.
God save our country.
D.