Poor Little Guy Isn't Getting Enough Sleep!

Whew! I feel for you, poor momma! The only advice I have is - do what works. What you're doing now, it isn't working. Perhaps, you and DH have decided he's ready to sleep apart and DS has not. He wants to sleep together and is telling you the only way he knows how, that he's not ready. At least not yet. Maybe we should put this away for awhile and try again later. Sleeping well is a developmental thing, like walking and talking. No use stressing out trying to rush it; it just happens when it happens. I think DS is telling you what he needs right now, loud and clear. It's exasperating, I'm sure. But he'll be a huge, snoring thing soon enough (blink and you're there), honest. Don't rush him. That's my advice.

Hello A.:)
I looked on babycenter and 9 months old needs 14 hours of sleep total in 24 hours.If you add his night time sleep and naps does he get it???
They say (wise people I guess:))the best sleeping arangment is when everyone gets the best sleep.
We coslept with our first son till he was 4 months old However my husband was very uncomfortable with baby being in the bed,he was worried that he would roll over him.I know many moms just tell hubby go on the couch, but sorry, we just did not want to do it. We finally got a crib when he was 4 months old(I wish I knew then about those cosleepers that clip onto the bed) Crib was next to our bed though since we only had one room(the only other option was the bathroom:)).And our son did wonderfully when we moved him out of our bed .Everyone was happy(hubby included) When our son was 12 months we moved to our first house and we put him in his own room....again no problem. We never did rocking and always put him in the crib awake.He too woke up at 3:00 am crying, he was a big boy(still is:)) so he was hungry and wanted a bottle. We tried CIO, night after night and it would go for hours,so I just started putting a cup in his crib after he fell asleep , so at night he would wake up, find his cup and go back to sleep. It worked out great.However when he was 21 months he climbed out of the crib and we started laying down with him to go to sleep(bad idea......for us) SO now at 3 1/2 that's the only way he goes to sleep.
It all really depends on what works for you . If co sleeping works fine and everyone is happy , why give it up????? There are people on both sides for cosleeping and CIO. Listen ,this story might be a shock for you but in the country that I am from, avarage family of 4-5 lives in 1 br apartment. Growing up we stayed in the crib till we're 4-5 years old in the same room with parents and siblings.After we could not fit in the crib anymore we slept on the pull out couch togather as well(4 people in my family)I was a teenager but the time my parents got me a separate bed. Everyone I knew had the same story. We did not like it but that's how it was so.... I(and millions other people in my country) do not have any attachment issues or anything and have what you would consider healthy sleeping habits.
I personally chose not to cosleep because we were not getting good sleep.I do not rock to sleep/hold while my kids sleep/or sleep with them during the naps because of ....well because I need my time and I need to get things done(call it selfish or well) Yes that is right that kids are only small for so long, but if their mom is a zombie during the day due to no sleep....that is no good either.
You ask how long to let them cry ...well we used CIO method for when our youngest would not stay with anyone else but me(in church nusery) and the first time he cried was almost an hour, he was 14 months old(I did get called a bad and mean mom on this site for that, and not a devoted Christian )It took couple of times, but he learned and now is doing great. So CIO works in some situations(it did for us) .
Best wishes:)

The problem is that if he cries long enough you eventually give in. I hate to say it but you are going to have to let him cry it out. If you don't, he will learn that "if I pitch a big enough tantrum I will get what I want." Believe me, you don't want that when he is 2 or 3 years old! He needs to learn to go to sleep on his own without you rocking him or laying down with him. Right now he freaks out because you were there when he went to sleep and you are not right there when he wakes up.

Put him to bed in his crib. Play some soft music or other soothing noise. He will probably start to cry right away. Let him cry for 5-10 minutes. Go in and check on him. Pat his back. BUT DO NOT PICK HIM UP! Leave the room and wait an additional 5 minutes to check on him (so you will wait 10-15 minutes depending on how quickly you went in the first time.). Keep extending your time until you go check on him by 5 minutes. Reassure him each time BUT DO NOT PICK HIM UP. He will eventually cry himself to sleep. I know how painful it is to listen to him cry it out (I have been there) but it really does work. Try to read a book or something to keep yourself distracted from all the crying. GOOD LUCK!

A.:

I can understand how hard it is for you to let him cry but unfortunately that is the best way. Have you tried putting a radio in his room? The thing that I used with my daughter was a TV. The different tone of voices and the flickering lights helped her stay asleep in all kinds of situations.

The absolute best way is to let them cry themselves to sleep. I completely understand how hard that is but in the long run it is the best way. Same with nap time. He needs to get comfortable with sleeping alone or you will have a permanent "little" sleeping partner.

Another thing, when my daughter was having a hard time sleeping I would "camp out" with her. Take him into another room (not your bedroom or his) and sleep with him there. That way you get sleep, he gets sleep and he will not associate it with sleeping in your bed.

Good luck.

This is what worked for us. You said you went from co-sleeping to baby in his own bed in his own room. Seems like quite a HUGE jump. Maybe baby steps on this would be more appropriate - no pun intended. :-) My son never slept well in his own room...so we moved his crib into our bedroom. And we have a small bedroom and it is tight, but well worth the sleep. My son is a big boy, so having me and my husband, the dog and the baby got extremely overcrowded!! However, having him in his on room got tiring getting up and down.

When we moved the crib into our room, he started sleeping better within about 2 weeks. If he did wake up, my husband would get up and lay him back down - and repeatedly lay him back down until he got sick of being pushed back down and just fell asleep. Sometimes he would cry and get mad, but persistence paid off. And he was not in a room by himself "crying -it-out". Having my husband do this really helped - he knew he could sucker momma into letting him into our bed. One night my son woke up, stood up, and started whining and we both just kinda ignored him. He kept on, so my husband raised up and said "Caleb lay back down its night time". He knew we weren't gonna get up and get him out of his crib, so he grunted at my husband, then we heard the thump of him throwing himself back down in the crib. Then we never heard anything else out of him until morning. We both very quitely laughed and went back to sleep. (I love the personality of my son!)

Anyway, my son slept 10 hours straight last night. He knows that he is safe, near us, and there is no reason to worry. If he wakes up, we are right there, but hes not in our bed kicking us in the head at night! I'm not telling you to follow this advise exactly, but maybe you can move him a little more slowly somehow. I have to tell you that I really don't think crying it out is necessary. As I told someone else, parenting is a time for creativity! If hes like my son, crying just makes him more mad and awake, therefore he sleeps less.

I hope you find something that works for you. A tired grumpy baby is no fun and goes to sleep even harder! Good luck!

I co-slept with both of mine until they were at least 5 - of course, I could not do the cry thing - but my feeling is that they are close to you all the time / spent 9 months or more right inside you - the closest they could ever be so why shouldn't they love to sleep with you as well.
My feeling, after 8 years of motherhood, is that they grow up so quickly - I loved co-sleeping with them - b/c I knew the time would come when they would want their own space - Since mine are so close in age - 18 mos apart - it was fairly cramped - with me nursing the younger and cuddling the older- so I began sleeping with both of them in another room / bed than my husband - we all slept very well at that point - I would not have had it any other way - usually, if I had planned to get back up to have alone time with DH - I would have fallen asleep anyway from all those previous sleepless nights. AND I never listened to anyone telling me I should not be co-sleeping with them for so long - they are my kids, after all. They are 7 & 8 now and are perfectly healthy and still love mom to come sing the sleep song and snuggle them while reading stories.
I also feel that you have to have that whole bedtime routine going - bathtime then story time, etc - and I ALWAYS laid down with them - sang them a song and sometimes fell asleep with them - sometimes it is easier to have a matress on the floor - instead of the crib - that way you can be there with him until he falls asleep and then get up - not sure if that is your cup of tea or not, but it sure did make my life easier during those young years -
My point is, you are going to have sleepless nights if you are transitioning him - until he is fully transitioned to sleeping alone - if you are going to do it, you have to follow through and do it - and a week or more of sleepless nights at 3 am is what is going to happen - he is used to sleeping with someone and as with all kids, will take time to get used to something different.
My choice to sleep in another room with both was so that we could all sleep well and like I said before, I have never been into letting any child cry for a long period of time.
Here I am 7 years later still dealing with the sleep deprivation from those early years - but it's getting easier :)
When we finally transitioned to me sleeping back with my hubby - they slept together, so that made it a bit easier - And I always put on some soothing music for them to fall asleep to - they told me - it made them feel like they were not alone when the music is on.

We did the same -- co-sleeping until about 8 months. At that point he started scooting and we were afraid he'd fall off the bed.

What we did is set a rule that we would get him if he'd cry more than 10 minutes. We used that for at night and naptimes. After 10 minutes we'd comfort him and put him back and wait another 10 minutes. If he was still crying we brought him to bed with us (or held him if it was naptime).

He did join us for a lot of 3 a.m. for a while (although we also moved during that time...) but eventually he got more accustomed to the routine and more and more often made it through the night.

One other thing we did as part of this -- when he moved to his crib we started only giving him a pacifier for nap or bedtime. I think that made it more effective as a comforting thing having it only at those times.

Also, make sure his room is not too bright or distracting so it's comfortable and sleep-inducing. I think that makes a difference too.

I know it doesn't seem like it right now, but this doesn't last forever. You will get through it!

Poor little guy. I know it is hard to hear him cry, but I think you should let him cry. Maybe if he gets really wound-up go in and comfort him then put him back down. In the long-run he needs to learn to sleep on his own. All of you will sleep better in the future. I know it's really hard to let him cry during the night especially when all you want to do is sleep. Try training him during nap times first and when he gets used to that work on night time.

My 8 month old girl is a great sleeper. The times I let her cry early on have paid off for both of us.

I'm adding this after reading other responses: You really need to decide (with your husband) what parenting philosophy you want to hold to. There's such a wide range of advice. Decide what's best for your family and go with that. AND don't feel guilty about it.

Blessings,
T.

I think at the end of the day, you're going to have to let him cry - even for naps (but not more than an hour). He's figured out that when he cries, you'll come get him, so that is what he does. They are very smart, these little ones. I know it's hard, it completely sucks. But if nothing else works, that may be what has to happen. I recommend getting Marc Weissbluth's book Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child. It talks about the need for sleep, the different stages of sleep as far as what is going on neurologically with kids at different ages AND the importance of a routine/schedule for sleep... I found it very helpful. While we didn't co-sleep, my DD was swaddled and slept in her car seat the first 6 months of her life. When it was time to move her out of both, it took a couple weeks for her to adjust. That is also the time we started getting her to go to sleep on her own. Sometimes she does great, sometimes she still cries and sometimes we help her to sleep by holding her. BUT she knows how to put herself back to sleep when she wakes up at night and for naps (most of the time). If she wakes up, it's because she needs something - food, diaper change or is in pain from teething or a tummy ache. It's not every night, but we do enjoy periodic nights of 10-11 hours of uninterrupted sleep from her - probably two or three nights a week now. Other nights, she gets hungry, and we feed her and she goes back to sleep.

I am not a fan of the CIO method either! I also have a 20 minute napper. I have spent the last month talking to everyone under the sun trying to get advice on sleep issues. It appears that some children are just cat nappers. And, you can't force your kid to sleep anymore than you can force them to eat. But, I have found that if I lay with him during on of his naps that he will wake up about 40 minutes into the nap... eat .. then go back to sleep for as long as 1 hour. I usually get up around 10 minutes after he eats and falls back to sleep. We are also cosleeping and are currently making that transition to the crib. We tried the babywise method which is a cry it out... no thank you! Besides, that book should be used from the second your infant gets home from the hospital. Trying to implement it after your child is past 2 months doesn't work, at least, I haven't found anyone with anything positive to say about that. I have come to the conclusion that if I pay really close attention to his signs and I do what my gut tells me that we have a really good day. He is less whiny and gets the proper amount of rest for him. Unfortunately for me... my little boy is on 2 hour cycles. I don't get to do as much at one time as I would like, but it eventually gets done and my husband and I take turns putting him down and laying with him.... which is why I can play on the internet right now. I say just trust yourself. Some babies just like to be close to their parents for a safe feeling. I'm okay with that. When he's old enough to have a better understanding of why I'm am leaving him maybe after a year old , then I'll play the CIO card. For now.. having tried a couple of different methods I feel like this is the way it should be. Good luck to you and your little one.

I disagree with much of the advice you've gotten so far. Mostly because I'm all about gentle parenting which does not include crying-it-out techniques. The reason you feel uncomfortable hearing him cry is called your God-given mother's instinct. When we go against that, we feel "not right." Also, I think your expectations of what is normal sleep at his age may be way off. Babies and even young children need to be PARENTED to sleep, not simply PUT to sleep. So far, he sounds normal to me. How many total hours sleep is he getting in a 24 hour period? Add up naps and night time. That's the only number that matters (in addition to his behavior when he's awake)when deciding if he's sleep deprived. I'm thinking that number is around 12-15 hours for an 8 month old. I can't remember and I can't find the darn link I usually use.

Check out this link to the replies to another mom with similar "sleep problems". Also check out my advice to her. It's exactly what I want to tell you right now, but I'm being lazy and not wanting to type all the again :)
http://www.mamasource.com/request/recent/27028/1210899935/10

Here's an excerpt from one of the links I gave her:
"Does night waking last forever?
Remember that night waking in babies and young children is normal and temporary!
Children grow out of night waking, even when we do nothing to discourage it. This period of time will be a very tiny part of your child's years with you.
Your goal is to maximize sleep for everyone in the family, while respecting the needs of your child.
If you're meeting this goal, then ignore anyone who suggests that you do things differently. If your sleep situation is not working (or stops working) then you can always do things differently. All parents find that they change the way they do things as their child grows older and reaches different developmental stages - sleep is just another thing that changes as your child grows"

Here's one more link specific to naps:
Solving Naptime Problems
http://www.kellymom.com/pantley/pantley27.html

Good luck to you, mama, and I wish you the best!

Children do best with a routine. There are cultures who co-sleep with the family- probably most of the world. So- firsat you have to decide if you really want to do this. I nursed my daughter, now 30 till she was 18 mo. I would get up all thro the night and take her in bed. She would suck for a few min, and fall asleep, and I would be miserably uncomfortable, then put her back to bed, where she would sleep for another hr. At 18 mo, I couldn't take the sleep deprivation any longer. She cried for almost 2 weeks, but finally did sleep on her own. It was such a relief to me, to finally get some rest. 8 mo doesn't need milk at night, he needs to sleep. And, so do you. Nurse him before bedtime, and put him down. When he wakes, let him cry. He will go back to sleep after a hile. Good luck. And from now on, keep him on a schedule, you will love everyone more!

.

That sounds like my life not too long ago!

DD (now 14 months) started having trouble sleeping after a couple trips out of state and out of routine. Once she started waking up 6-7 times a night to be nursed back to sleep I decided we had to do something. I knew I couldn't just let her CIO (cry-it-out) and even trying to go down that road would end in failure on my part. So I compromised.

Whenever she would wake up I would give her 5 minutes to fall back to sleep on her own, then I would go in there and sit on the floor next to her crib. The first night she cried for a good hour every time she woke up...it was a rough night. But the next night she only woke up 3 times and only cried for 30 minutes each time, the next night it was only 15 minutes, and then by the next night she was just waking up once early in the morning and I was nursing her at this time and she'd go right back to sleep.

As for naps, I rocked her through naps for a few months because if I laid her down she'd sleep for 20 minutes and then be done for the day. Once we got night time sleep down good I did the same process for naps. It took a few days just like night time did but now she sleeps for an hour to an hour and a half each day. But she's never been a long napper so that is just what she needs apparently.

We have a four month old who has slept with us on and off since she was born (their was a brief period where she was in her pack n play next to the bed...and she did great). We are starting to think about putting her in her crib...I couldn't stand to even think of letting her cry... We got the book the No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley...I am reading the book for the second time. I read it when she was born and set it aside...and I am now reading it as I am having trouble putting her down for naps and we are thinking of moving her to her crib. Anyway...the book is excellent...very easy to read and makes perfect sense...I think it will take more work that just letting her cry it out...but that is fine with me! Basically she just works in very small baby steps at moving a baby to a crib...and helping them sleep longer also. The book gives good details and she also understands every night isn't perfect and the baby may end up back in your bed...but it is ok...there is always tomorrow. She has four children herself. Anyway...lots of babbling...I haven't tried it yet...but I think it will work...and I won't let my baby cry it out...

Our daughter will be turning 1 on June 1st....we never had her co-sllep with us but I started a routine with her from the 1st day home from the hospital that has worked well for us. Not sure if it will for you, but I figured I would let you know anyway:-) We start with bathime (which we don't always get to do but if given the chance we will). I give her a bath with the Johnsons nightitme soap. I then dry her off and put on her jammies (we start this process about 7:30 or 8pm). Once I have her jammies on I sit her down and feed her, her bottle. Then we play for a few minutes and I take her into her room and ready her a story in her rocking chair. I make sure all lights are off but her night light and bedside light. Once her story is done I turn off the light and put her in her crib. We have a fisher price aquarium that has lights and plays music and a heartbeat bear (it is a god send...they sell them at babies r us if you don't have one. I turn both of those on and kiss her and leave the room. When we 1st started she would cry out and I always had the 10 minute rule. If she cries consistently for 10 minutes I go back in her room and try to console her (I NEVER pick her up). Usually she will fall asleep before I have to go in there the 2nd time, but if not I wait 10 more minutes and do it all over again. The older she gets I think she knows the routine and she only cires for a few seconds now if at all.
Occasionally she will wake up in the middle of the night and I can hear her turn her aquarium back on, but the soothing music usually knocks her right back out.

I sure do hope this helps and I hope you start getting some sleep soon!!! :-)

I would nurse my little ones at bedtime and start them out in their own crib after they fell asleep. Then I would put them in the bed with us to nurse when they woke up in the middle of the night. Babies need the security of having their mommies close by. I would nurse on one side and fall back to sleep. The baby would make little noises and I would switch the baby to the other side. If I woke up later, I would quietly nudge my husband and he would put the baby back in the crib.

I think the message a baby gets when you let them "cry it out" is that the people who love me don't take care of me when I need them. That isn't the message I want to send my baby. I want my children to always know they can count on mommy and daddy to take care of them.

People will tell you that you will never get your children out of your bed if you let them in bed with you. My older children are 18, 16, and 11. They do not want to sleep in bed with mom and dad! :o) Once in awhile my 3 year old still wants to sleep with us. We let him. Once he falls asleep his daddy gently carries him to bed. Sometimes little ones just need the security of having you close by. There is nothing wrong with giving your children what they need from you.

My three old sleeps better if he is in the room I am in when he falls asleep. He will nap anywhere in the house, but he likes me to be close by. I think he feels more secure to sleep when I am close by. He has napped in the living room, kitchen, my office at work, etc. He also naps well sleeping on my pillow. I think he smells my scent on the pillow and thinks I am near by. The best naps all of my babies ever took was when I napped with them. Sometimes I needed a nap too!

The key to being a mom is trusting your own instincts and doing what works for you and for your little ones.

Most people say to let them cry it out, but my husband and I could never do that. We did co-sleeping until each of our six kids was at least two--the youngest managed to go a little longer. Babies need a sense of security. They can learn sleep discipline later.

Your nap time problems sound familiar, too. My oldest always wanted attention. Even now, at 25, he's very much a people person and has a hard time being alone. He also was a light sleeper and didn't need much sleep--he still doesn't. He wore me out. Oddly, our situation with him improved about six months after we gave him a baby brother (when he was almost two). Those two are still very close. And life was easier with two kids who complemented each other than it had been with one who demanded constant attention. (I'd have to ask his wife, but I think he still does.)

Hey A.,
Go and get the book Secrets of the Baby Whisperer, and if possible also get The Baby Whisperer Solves All Your Problems (by teaching you to ask the right questions). These books are wonderful and speak specifically to your problems. They have helped me out tremendously in many dfferent areas. They will be well worth your time and money!

hi A.,

The best book that I've read on this subject is "On Becoming Baby Wise" by Gary Ezzo and Robert Bucknam. Some of their suggestions are a little too strict for me, but if you read it with a grain of salt, it's an extremely helpful book. I followed it with my first daughter and she started sleeping through the night at 7 weeks. My second daughter was more difficult, I think it was because I was too lax in her daily routine because I was busy, but now she's 4 months, and has been sleeping through the night for about a month now.

This book claims that a baby your son's age is able to sleep 12 hours at night with 2 good naps (1 1/2-2hrs each) during the day. The biggest point that this book stresses is a feed, waketime,then naptime routine and teaching the baby to fall asleep on his own. The book encourages to straighten up the daytime routine, then be strict at night. Put him down and don't pick him up. They say it usually takes 3-5 days to establish a routine, but it can take up to 2 weeks.

Take heart! A good night's sleep will do you both good!

I cant' say it enough, but read the No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley. Your little guy sounds just like us and our daughter. If it wasn't for this book I don't know what we would have done. Don't worry, just take your time, and really try to be consistent and strong. I don't like it either when they cry, but sometime a little crying is ok, but this book is awesome!!! I've recommended it to soooo many moms.
Good luck!
A.